Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to this episode of Opening Up. This is, I believe, our sixth podcast. I have been off the air for a little while, but it is great to be back and to welcome our special guests at really a very vibrant time at SAR Academy. We're a few days before Purim, and it's really a happy month for the Jewish people.
[00:00:23] Speaker A: It's certainly a time that we try to focus on our, I would say, internal happiness. And what I wanted to do is talk about some of the things that happen here at SAR and actually have happened for a long time at SAR around the holiday of Purben, but in particular to talk about it from the perspective of young children. And the guests that we have today are really experts when it comes to young children. I have Alana Rifkin Gelnik, who is the director of our elc, the associate principal of sar, who is responsible for our ELC and the wonderful new building that we have moved into a couple of years ago, who was deeply involved in the design and thinking about what a property ELC building should and could look like.
And I'm also joined by Dr. Shoshana Dex, who is the incredible psychologist of our ELC and who spends her days making sure that our 2, 3, 4 and 5 year olds are taken care of.
[00:01:21] Speaker A: In all kinds of ways. And we're very, very grateful. I am very grateful that you have decided to, or you've agreed really to join this podcast to talk about something that I think is important to all of us, to give people a window into what we do and some thought behind that. There's gonna be some Torah, there's gonna be some education, there's gonna be some psychology. And just for the record, all of us hopefully will be able to contribute to all of those topics. So let's jump right in. Alana, how are you today?
[00:01:49] Speaker B: I'm great. I'm excited to be here.
[00:01:51] Speaker A: Great. It is, I think, I don't know, five or six days before Purim. Tell me what it feels, what it looks like at sir.
[00:01:57] Speaker B: So I love Purim in sir. And it brings me back when I came for an interview here, Rabbi Kraus, you interviewed me in this exact room and were asking me lots of interesting questions.
[00:02:10] Speaker A: This used to be my office, I remember.
[00:02:12] Speaker B: Yes, it was. And while we were interviewing, lots of people were coming in and out of your office. I mean, lots of people. Lots of disruption and excitement. And people were asking you questions about Purim, about Topsy Turvy Day, and people were asking you about Megillah reading. And I remember looking at you and saying, rabbi Kraus, you're open on Purim.
[00:02:33] Speaker A: And.
[00:02:34] Speaker B: And you said, of course we're open on Purim. Now where I'm from, we're not open on Purim.
[00:02:39] Speaker A: I went to sar, so I just thought everyone was open on Purim.
[00:02:41] Speaker B: And I was shocked by it. And when I asked you why, you said, of course we're open on Purim. We're the community. Everybody comes here to celebrate. We learn about it. Our 8th grade students learn handelayne megillah. And we are here and we do that together. And I remember being blown away by that idea. And it was at that moment that I knew that I had to be here.
[00:03:02] Speaker A: So obviously we didn't scare you away. You decided to come here even though it was a little topsy turvy around that time. And let's go back a little bit because I came to SAR in 1981 as a sixth grader and actually one of the most. One of the many formative experiences I had here was I was taught by Rabbi Stuart Klammer, who I think went on to be the principal of Maimonides. Among other things, he taught us, me and the, I guess the 8th grade, 7th and 8th grade boys how to read the megillah. And that was a skill that I picked up. I ended up learning how to read the whole megillah. But it all started here.
And you know, now it's funny, now we have a lot 8th grade boys who are reading the megillah. So everyone gets like three or four psukim and a few kids take on reading the megillah for bigger chunks of the megillah for others. And now we have our girls reading the megillah as well. But yeah, it really has been for a long standing tradition here and something that we're proud of because it's one of those opportunities that we have to be open on a holiday. Right? You can't be open on Pesach. That's not really practical. But we're open cholomoitzuka Sukkot. We're open on Purim, we're open on Hanukkah almost every year.
And it's a great time to just to kind of practice what we preach and to learn about, do the things that we learn about. So, yes, it is a wonderful time here. Dr. Shoshana Maura. Shoshana, tell us from your perspective, you did an interview during Adar. This might have been a little bit newer to you. How long have you been with us at SAR and tell us what it feels like, down there.
[00:04:29] Speaker C: I've been here. This is my ninth year at sar. I think one of my favorite things about having school open on Purim, and is it being a day that is just so exciting for everyone, and to have that experience with Sibor, like, all together, I think is a very special thing that can't be replicated. I think we might be one of the only schools that has Purim together and Yelah here with school open.
[00:04:53] Speaker A: But the truth is, you know, like I said, Purim's in six days. I mean, I think it feels like we're feeling it now already. So let's go backwards a little bit. Rosh, Chodesh, Adar. We got back from vacation this year. Doesn't always obviously work out that way, but we got back from vacation last Tuesday.
[00:05:09] Speaker A: Did you like the Maccabees?
[00:05:10] Speaker B: The ELC was so excited about them.
[00:05:13] Speaker A: So these activities have been going on. I mean, did we learn anything this whole month?
Is it just kind of a chaotic month? Is it just a month of fun activities and concerts or.
Tell me about that.
[00:05:26] Speaker B: You used the word vibrant at the beginning of the intro, and I think it's exactly that.
Adar is the most vibrant month here. And there's lots of learning, there's lots of experiential learning, which is something in the early learning center that we hold at our core. So you're coming into classrooms and you're seeing Shushan and costumes and lots of fabric that children try on. And we have special programming that really enhances that simcha, which is something we're trying to do throughout the month. So we did start with maccabeats. It was awesome.
And we had a ventriloquist and we're having pony rides.
[00:06:07] Speaker A: Why pony rides?
Oh, I think I get it. But explain.
[00:06:11] Speaker B: Yeah, you think you get it.
[00:06:12] Speaker C: There's a reference there.
[00:06:13] Speaker B: Mordechai.
We want our students, our 4 year olds and 5 year olds spend a tremendous amount of time learning the story of Purim, and we want them to feel like Mordechai on those ponies. It's become tradition. Actually, I think it's our fifth or sixth year. Could be, I think so doing it. And students get all dressed up and come down to ride the pony and then, of course, make references to it in their classrooms as well.
[00:06:41] Speaker A: Okay, so there's clearly a lot going on. We had on Friday, we had turn Friday into Shabbat, or Friday is Shabbat of sir. It says, you know, again, just really in the spirit of an ahafochum. In the spirit of Mixing it up a little bit. Tomorrow we're going to have Power of Words day again. Obviously connected to Purim, the concept of, of the power of words, Kiyim Hakaresh Tacharishi Beit Hazot, where Mordechai told Esther, you can't be silent. You have to use your words for good. And that really changed the history and the destiny of the Jewish people. So we have a long standing tradition in memory of Matt Fenster Zicharon Livracha, where we learn, the whole school learns about the power of words. So different themes on different days leading up to Purim. And it's really a special time.
I asked my students, you know, can you be commanded to be happy?
[00:07:31] Speaker A: How do you like, wake up and say, ok, okay, today's gonna be happy day? And I guess the other half of the question is like, shouldn't every day be a happy day? Why would that be limited to Adar?
[00:07:40] Speaker C: I love it.
It's interesting. What we talk about a lot with parents and teachers of young children is I think people have a tendency from a very good place in their heart to say to kids, don't be sad, don't cry, don't be sad. And what we try to impress upon people right away is you cannot tell someone how to feel or how not to feel. And we can almost flip that on its head here for Adhar and say, how do we be happy? Time to be happy.
I really don't believe that a feeling is something we can command other people to feel. However, maybe the onus is on us to create a vibe, an atmosphere, and a vira of something that feels joyous and special and different. And so how do you make something feel joyous, special, different? I think what we really need to create is something that's electric, something that's exciting.
How do you do that? For little kids, and probably big kids too, I think it's turning things upside down on their head. School is a place that's usually so structured, so routinized. You come here and it's so predictable. You know what every day is supposed to look like. And here, talk about Topsy Turvy. We turn it all upside down on its head. There are things that are so unexpected that will happen. Teachers will switch and be instructors in other classrooms. You might have a concert in the middle of the day. Surprise. There's a ventriloquist in the basement. Guess what we're jumping on ponies. And what is it about the surprise that makes it special or electric or exciting? I think it's that unpredictability. And what's funny about that too is can you really say that that makes someone happy? I'm not actually sure. And why I think that there's so much value in it is that maybe what we're teaching kids is that you can feel two things at once. You can feel really excited about something and also a little nervous about it. And so when things are unpredictable, maybe that feels a little bit uncomfortable, but it also feels really exciting.
[00:09:34] Speaker A: So is that like part of the educational experience? Like you can't predict everything and maybe you have to learn. Maybe we're learning excitement and resilience at the same time.
[00:09:42] Speaker C: Maybe that two emotions can be co activated right at the same time.
[00:09:46] Speaker A: You know, you taught me something. I caught you all the time when you say what we used to say. I haven't said it since you stopped me. You get what you get and you don't get upset. And I think you heard me say that. I hope I didn't say it to a kid. Maybe I was just talking about it in some adult conversation and you said to me right across that is the not appropriate. Of course. Why shouldn't you get upset? I mean, kids get upset all the time. And why would you teach a kid not to get upset? If you're feeling upset, get upset. Just maybe learn how to deal with that upset. So you just reminded me of that when you were talking about how we manage our emotions and we spent a.
[00:10:16] Speaker B: Lot of time talking about labeling emotions and what to do about them in the elc, in all our classrooms, students could talk about happy, they could talk about sad, they could talk about frustrated, they could talk about ecstatic. Right. Depending on who they are. And then what do you do when you're feeling this way and what actions can you take to help you feel if you're feeling sad, how you could feel happier or what you could do if you're feeling mad, what you can do to help yourself.
[00:10:48] Speaker A: So it's not necessarily mandating happiness because happiness can't be mandated.
But I guess it might be setting the stage for trying to create the environment that will produce happiness. It's interesting, I was just thinking about it as we were talking. I guess we're lucky or grateful that we're not in session in the summer where actually the opposite is true.
[00:11:11] Speaker A: Where you're almost mandating sadness and who wants to do that, and especially who wants to do that for little children. So I guess we don't really have that challenge directly. And certainly if you have to mandate Happiness or sadness. I would certainly rather be in school during Adar than during the month of av.
But it sounds like you're talking about trying to create the right ingredients or the right environment. But let me ask you a question. I mean, it sounds like you're describing or are you describing chaos? Don't we like structure?
Especially younger children. Don't they need structure? Do kids have a hard time when new teachers walk into their class for teacher swap? Or when there's a lot of stimulation around them? Does it happen that the opposite effect is created? And what do you do for those children who have a hard time with it?
[00:11:57] Speaker C: You used the word resilience before. I think it's so important because what's exciting for one might be devastating and difficult for another. I love roller coasters. I really don't.
I just use that as an example. Alana probably does. I can't stand roller coasters.
[00:12:10] Speaker B: I like that.
[00:12:11] Speaker C: There you go. See, everybody likes certain things and others feel like super uncomfortable. But what is it that she likes? It's the thrill of it. And that feeling doesn't feel so good for me, that thrill. So for some kids, they're gonna like the thrill of like a lights out concert, right? Or loud booming sounds in there or feeling the rhythm in the floor. Other kids might really feel uncomfortable about it. The same is true if you think about like this whole month. There's Purim carnivals. A carnival is incredibly overstimulating. Noise, crowds, costumes. Things that can be really uncomfortable for some kids and for others feels thrilling. It's an opportunity for all of us in the ELC to talk about how this might be exciting. That might be one thing you're feeling. Raise your hand if you might be feeling something else. Tell us what you're feeling. Look at that. Two people could be in the same experience and be feeling very different things. What can you do that will help? Would it help you if I was holding your hand? Would it help you if I gave you earpiece to put on? Would it help you if we stood outside and watched that concert? And I just feel like it's a great way to put out there that we have these communal experiences. Not everybody experiences them the same way. I'm not going to make the state the mistake of assuming or saying everybody thinks this is awesome and exciting and how can I make it something that is not just more comfortable for you, but maybe that you're able to enjoy? That's a great message for parents to think about too because shul is like that. Paramsuda could be like that. A carnival could be like that.
[00:13:36] Speaker B: And then we spent some time celebrating when kids do things that are hard or not comfortable for them.
[00:13:45] Speaker A: Alana, you wrote a. I mean, both of you wrote a letter to our parents that I think we sent out a couple days ago around these days and these weeks. What were some of the highlights of that letter? What did you address for them?
[00:13:58] Speaker B: Shoshana and I have spent a lot of time thinking about Purim and all the things that are. Are expected.
And I know I grew up in a house that Purim's amazing. It's incredible. It's the greatest day of the year.
And I think we know more now. I think we know that it's not always that way.
So we spent some time highlighting what those things that could be tricky are and what we could do to help alleviate stress, if there is stress, and to get into that simcha and to get into that happiness. So one of the things we talk a lot about is that the music, the singing, and something I'm thinking about when you said carnival is lots of.
[00:14:39] Speaker C: Bodies, a lot of bodies close to each other. Bodies that are close to each other. Groggers.
[00:14:45] Speaker B: Yeah, groggers.
[00:14:46] Speaker A: A lot of noise and a lot of bodies. Okay.
[00:14:49] Speaker B: And knowing that that could be something that could be hard. We spend time in our classrooms planning for it. So our students all make graggers, and they practice with graggers. Today I walked into a threes classroom, and they were shaking their graggers when the teacher was saying haman. And I think they're really going to be ready for next week when we gather together as an ELC and read some of the megillah. When we say Haman and 250 children are together doing that, that will be a louder sound, but they'll have had the practice in their classroom to do it so that they could enjoy it in a different way.
[00:15:30] Speaker A: When my kids were in the elc, I think they wrote their own magilla. Tell me about that and how that's.
[00:15:35] Speaker B: Evolved over the years. That's evolved.
We want students to be able to retell the story, and we also want them to be thinking critically about the story.
So classes now talk about the story and have students retell it. And also say, how do you think Vashti felt when, you know, when she was told that she can't come? And how do you think Ahasuerus felt when he was tricked? And we talk about feelings again. We weave feelings into the story over and over again and ask more thinking questions so that there's more thought that.
[00:16:13] Speaker A: Goes into it feels like that's a segue. Right. Into Pesach. Right. You're going from one story to another story and talking, you know, teaching about stories, telling stories, asking questions.
[00:16:22] Speaker B: Yeah. Sometimes Paro and Haman get confused.
[00:16:24] Speaker A: They get confused.
They get confused. That makes sense. Now there's something else that I think has evolved over the years. And you know, it's been a long standing tradition, although there are interesting possible origins of this tradition has to do with dressing up in costumes. Let me hear about that.
[00:16:41] Speaker C: So I think one of the cornerstones of early childhood is getting to pretend.
And a big part of pretend is dress up play. And so even outside of Purim, something that's happening in our classrooms all the time is that there's a pretend play area where they can be, let's say, for example, in the kitchen, putting pretend pots on a stove, which would be something never allowed in their household because kids would never be allowed around fire. Right. For example. And there's something super exciting about trying on the role like a mommy or a daddy or a caregiver who is able to do those very grown up things. Kids are constantly trying to be something that they're not or that they're not yet. Right. So, like, it's super fun to dress up like a lion, because I'll never be a lion. So it's super fun to get to try that on and be something as powerful and courageous and commanding as a lion. And I'll never be one, but now's my opportunity to try that on. There's also real excitement in being able to dress up and try on being someone that I am not yet like a daddy, a grown up, a mommy, a caregiver. Those people seem really a teacher, a mora, a principal for a day.
And those are things that are super exciting for kids to be able to do. They feel so powerful when very often they are not the people in the driver's seat who get to make decisions and be in charge of their own lives. And it's great to be able to try that on for 10 minutes.
[00:18:03] Speaker A: So it sounds like you like it.
[00:18:05] Speaker C: We love dress up. It's something that happens all the time. Costumes are not even necessary for kids to be able to have the magic of dress up. Like Alana was mentioning before, there's pieces of fabric in the classroom that are getting wrapped around people and magically.
[00:18:19] Speaker A: So I don't have to go out and buy. Parents don't have to go out and buy things.
[00:18:22] Speaker B: No, totally not necessary. You could make all day. We make things. So today a two year old decided he wanted to be a pirate, so they created a patch for his eye. And then another student said, we need a pirate stick. I don't know what a pirate stick is, but we made a pirate sick. So you could really be very, very creative and don't need the fanciest or best store bought costume. You could create anything and what's off limits.
[00:18:48] Speaker C: So interesting. You know, I think what kids are most excited to be like we were saying before, is something that they're not. That's why they often want to be a king or a queen. Royalty. Super powerful. A superhero. Again, super powerful. You referenced before that. We may have had a rule sometime in the past, like before our time, that superheroes were not allowed. We actually don't make superhero costumes. Not allowed. We think it's a great way for kids to try on being powerful or having magical powers. However, the one thing that we do caution against or discourage is bringing weapons to school as a part of a costume.
And it's not.
[00:19:26] Speaker A: Sounds reasonable.
Yes.
[00:19:28] Speaker C: I would hope people think that we're not anti weapons either for play. We're really not. I think that if you say to kids, no guns, no swords ever, they're gonna pick up sticks and turn those sticks into swords, into guns. Because there's something really powerful feeling about pretending to use those things. But on Purim, we would like for kids to have two hands free, to use groggers, to do art projects, to participate in a carnival, to hold hands with friends and dance around together. And if you are overly focused on that awesome weapon that you brought in as a part of your costume and it's always in your hand, then you're not going to be able to engage in and enjoy with everybody else some of those really nice.
[00:20:05] Speaker A: Purim is the goal, and I know that we've talked about this, so you know, is the goal for kids to be in school on Purim so that, you know, by 12:30 when they get home, they've fulfilled all the mitzvot of the day. Is that what we're trying to do? Or I would say, you know, what can we encourage parents to do meaningfully around the holiday at home?
[00:20:28] Speaker B: Our students, from our youngest students to our oldest students, really internalize the mitzvot of the holiday. But it's more than that, like you said. So we really want children going home and delivering mishloch manot and preparing their mishloch manot with their families. And we want children to Be excited about Suda and to talk about.
[00:20:53] Speaker B: What they bring to the suda, what they do there. And by the way, compare it to like. Like a Shabbos meal. Right? Because children are making meaning of all the experience that they're having. So this is a holiday that you don't light candles. Right. Talk to your kids about that. Some holidays we do, some don't. So we really use Purim as another opportunity to learn about another holiday, to learn about our customs, and then to fit them into their understanding of who we are as Jewish people.
[00:21:25] Speaker A: I think as kids get older and, you know, and I would say, really at all ages, we can teach them. One of the things that I think are meaningful, is meaningful about this, about this holiday, is the fact that it's about people's role in making a difference in history. Like we talked about before, it wasn't, you know, it wasn't the supernatural miracle even of Hanukkah or of Pesach, of, you know, the sea splitting or the oil lasting eight days. But it's about almost like. Like, right. Political decisions, interpersonal decisions.
[00:21:53] Speaker A: Dealing with challenging people and figuring out how I can make a difference and how I can impact the community around me. So maybe that's also something that we can help our kids try to understand in terms of internalizing the messages of the holiday. Anything that you think our listeners can.
[00:22:10] Speaker A: Hear about in terms of how we think specifically about this holiday, but really about the. The feelings around Yom Tov that you think we haven't touched upon yet.
[00:22:20] Speaker C: You know, there is one thing that I feel like Alana and I would feel it was especially important to go back and discuss because we talked about how costumes. A little while back, we talked a lot about how exciting it is and how important it is for kids to do dress up. And we neglected to really cover that. There's this other complicated piece to costumes and dress up that can be uncomfortable for kids and would be important for parents to think about.
Not all children are comfortable with the idea of.
[00:22:45] Speaker C: Using things to pretend that they are someone else. Meaning who's behind that mask can be a very scary experience for a child.
And so while we think that it's so funny, we might say, look how funny. They're not actually finding it very funny. It's usually those same kids who, at Disneyland, you're so excited to take them to see the princesses, and they are totally flipped out by it. Or at Sesame places.
[00:23:07] Speaker A: Is that a particular age?
[00:23:09] Speaker C: No, I think that for most kids, they would feel comfortable understanding the non permanence of a costume that you could take off the mask and still be the same person inside probably by age 4. And for some kids that would still remain something uncomfortable. But for twos and threes, I do think that that's a challenge. And so assuming that they're going to love to see Elmo in costume is not an assumption that we should make. It can be very frightening to them to see somebody else dressed that way and be confused about who's there underneath.
But also might prefer to not put on masks on themselves or full bodied costumes that way on themselves. And that's why we've encouraged parents to really think about allowing children to experience dress up in any way that makes them most comfortable. They may not like to cover their face with a mask and maybe they just want to wear a hat or maybe they just want to take a tie from your closet.
[00:24:03] Speaker B: And I think that's the lesson, right? You ask like what could we take away? I think it's really to think about what your children need and to figure.
[00:24:10] Speaker C: Out, meet them where they're at.
[00:24:12] Speaker B: Yeah. And to talk to them. Even our youngest students. Talk to them, check in with them, ask them how they're feeling about it, give them choice.
And I think that's something for Perham and generally that we could really work on.
[00:24:26] Speaker A: Okay, well, thank you very much for taking the time to have this discussion with me and by extension with all of those who will be tuning into this podcast before, during, after Purim. And to you, to your families and to your students, I would like to wish you a pre Purim samayach and may this simcha that you bring to our children be extended to all the members of our community and beyond. Thank you.
