Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello and welcome to the Opening Up Podcast. My name is Binny Kraus and we.
[00:00:04] Speaker B: Are here at SAR Academy, the open school. And what we are trying to do with these episodes is to open up about our open spaces and about our philosophy. With a very special guest, we are in the middle of a series talking to some of our alumni about their experiences outside of SAR and how their experience at SAR impacted and influenced their time outside. And today we have the very special privilege of listening to a conversation with Bella ingber, who graduated SAR, is now a student at NYU and has been very involved, in particular since October 7, with some of the things that have been happening there and the challenges on campus, which is a topic that many of us are interested in as we think about our children, as we think about our community, as we think about the state of the world and some of the challenges that our kids are.
[00:00:54] Speaker A: Growing up with today. So it is really great to present.
[00:00:58] Speaker B: This episode to you. It's a horrible, horrible, sad week in Medinat, Israel on Sunday on Mozei Shabbat when we heard the news of those that were killed that we've been davening for and thinking about for so long. Hirsch, Carmel, Aydin, Al Mog, Alex and Ori. We've been thinking about them a lot. We hope that all of the hostages that are still in Gaza will come home soon. But certainly as we start our school year, it's been a week of sadness and of mourning that we hope and we pray that all of our Khayalim will be safe and all of the hostages will come home safely soon.
[00:01:37] Speaker A: Good morning.
[00:01:38] Speaker C: Good morning.
[00:01:38] Speaker A: Thank you very much for coming.
[00:01:40] Speaker C: It's a pleasure to be here. It's very nostalgic to be sitting in this baby drawshare now.
[00:01:44] Speaker A: So when did you graduate Sar High School?
[00:01:46] Speaker C: I graduated in 2020, actually the COVID year. So my graduation was on the field.
[00:01:50] Speaker A: Your graduation was on the field? I remember that year well.
[00:01:53] Speaker C: It was memorable.
[00:01:53] Speaker A: You graduated the Academy in 2016?
[00:01:56] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:01:56] Speaker A: Then you went to SAR from.
[00:01:59] Speaker C: I think I was there from nursery onwards. I think I was in the ELC for years.
[00:02:04] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:02:04] Speaker C: I was. Before that, I was in the little building.
I was actually walking past it. I got off the train in Riverdale and I walked and I was on the phone with my mom and I said, I was so blessed to go to a school in such a beautiful location. Aside from everything else that sir has given me, Good just to be there. And then I went all the way through high school. I never left.
[00:02:22] Speaker A: Got it. Okay. So graduated in 2020. And then NYU, I started.
[00:02:27] Speaker C: I took a gap year in Israel, I went to TVA in Yerushalayim, and then I came right to NYU for the fall of 2021.
[00:02:34] Speaker A: Okay, and are you still a student at NYU?
[00:02:36] Speaker C: I am. I'm grad this upcoming spring, which is very.
[00:02:39] Speaker A: You hope you graduate.
[00:02:40] Speaker C: Yes. Fingers crossed. We'll see. Yes.
The goal is to graduate.
[00:02:44] Speaker A: What are you studying? What are you studying?
[00:02:45] Speaker C: I'm studying psychology and politics.
[00:02:47] Speaker A: Got it. Okay, so we're gonna get back to nyu, which is, I think.
[00:02:51] Speaker A: The centerpiece of this conversation. But actually we're talking about sar. We're talking about, I hope, the things that you got at SAR and from your family and from your other influences in your life that gave you strength to do some of the incredible things that we have been watching and been really proud of, which is why we asked you to spend some time us today. This is a recording for a few different forums that we're going to be talking about our school and talking about some of the alumni that we're proud of. And also we have a podcast called Opening up where the open school talks about education. And we'd love to be able to hear your perspective on the experience that you had here in the context of the experience that you're having or that you've had over the last couple of years. So let's start at the beginning. So, Greg, I'm happy. Tell me some of your quick memories from your time at SAR ELC Lower School, Board School.
[00:03:38] Speaker C: Oh, gosh.
[00:03:39] Speaker A: Hopefully the good ones.
[00:03:40] Speaker C: Okay. Only good ones. I think some of my fondest memories happened on the steps of the academy when the whole school would come together. The ethos of the school is being open and open minded and valuing discourse between not just different subjects and topics within a classroom, but also between students. And I think that bringing us all together on the steps really emphasized that point. My sister would wave from me from when she was in seventh grade and I was like all the way on the bottom of the school in the fifth grade. We would like wave to each other. I had friends in multiple grades. I think that was something I really value was the open aspect of the school. And I loved that the school would come together for those events. I think it really highlighted the community aspect that sir does such a great job at facilitating and cultivating. So anything that we did on the steps, whether it be Yom Hat's Smoot, whether it be Hanukkah, candlelighting, Memorial Day services, I think that all of Those really exemplified for me the strength of the SAR community. And I'm still very close with a lot of my friends from SAR Academy, even if they went to a different high school than I did. Because of those memories, I loved Pet Seyfer Lemusika, Pete Seyfer Le Musica.
[00:04:45] Speaker A: Okay, great.
[00:04:46] Speaker C: That was a big draw. Actually, one of my fondest memories is with Yossi Hershkitz. He was my teacher for, I think, three years in the academy, and.
[00:04:54] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:04:54] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. He and I had a very close friendship.
[00:04:56] Speaker A: That was almost the whole time that he was with us. He was with Nsaya for four years. So you had him for three of those.
[00:05:00] Speaker C: Yeah, I had him for three years.
[00:05:01] Speaker A: And he was a principal in Yerushalayim.
[00:05:03] Speaker C: Yeah, he was an amazing human being. Amazing neshama. And he would play kickball with us during recess. And I had the privilege of working closely with him, not just in the classroom, but also for Yomazikaron and for Beit Se, for Lumiziqa. He was my mentor numerous times, and so was Mura Hadassah.
[00:05:17] Speaker A: That's so powerful. And Mura Hadassah.
[00:05:19] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:05:19] Speaker A: So I'm going to tell Mara Hadassah that we spoke.
It was so sad. And we actually. And maybe you were even there. I'm sorry. We tried to connect that week that he was killed.
[00:05:28] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:05:29] Speaker A: That was definitely just one of the many ways that obviously, over the last year, something you talked about the steps. I don't know if you know this, but we've been gathering on the steps every day, which is now.
It was Hanukkah, it was Yom Hat's mood. And since October 7, we gathered every day just for a few minutes, and we said to Hillel to start our day. And I do think that was a powerful time. So one of the challenges, whether you're, frankly, at SAR or any school, is you're coming out of a pretty nice bubble, and then you show up on campus and you spent a year in Israel and now you're a student at nyu, which you're very excited about because this is what you've been working for so long.
[00:06:02] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:06:03] Speaker A: I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I imagine that you had some. A lot of good experiences there.
[00:06:07] Speaker C: Yeah. At nyu.
[00:06:08] Speaker A: At nyu. Yeah.
[00:06:09] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:06:10] Speaker A: Okay. So what was good about nyu? What is good about nyu?
[00:06:12] Speaker C: So I chose NYU because there's a running joke that it's nyu, Right. The Jewish community is very large. There are numerous Jewish facilities for services, for community building. And I was very excited to burst outside of my sir bubble a bit and meet new people from varying walks of Jewish life.
[00:06:32] Speaker A: I chose it because of the Jewish community.
[00:06:34] Speaker C: The Jewish community.
[00:06:35] Speaker A: Great school.
[00:06:35] Speaker C: Great school. In New York, I was able to be close enough to home that I could go. It's only like an hour and 15 commute, taking into account the subway and the train. But I was also far enough that it could be. I could say it's a schlep if I didn't really want to go in.
[00:06:47] Speaker A: So understood.
[00:06:48] Speaker C: It was great for me. That was my choice. I think that some of my fondest memories were probably the amazing people I've met both within the Jewish community and outside of the Jewish community. I joined a sorority, and I purposely am in a not Jewish sorority or not predominantly Jewish sorority. And I'm really grateful for that because I think that I've been able to meet new people. I've had my opinions challenged. I've been able to change and have those difficult conversations with them. I was very excited about it because you're in the city, there's always something to do. There's always someone to see, someone to talk to.
[00:07:20] Speaker A: So great Jewish community. Not too far from home, not too close to home.
[00:07:24] Speaker C: Exactly.
[00:07:25] Speaker A: Excellent school.
Life is good. You come back from Israel, you're strong, and you're going to a good school.
[00:07:30] Speaker C: They also have an Israel program. They have an abroad campus in Tel Aviv. So that was a big draw for me as well, because I knew I wanted to go. I tried. Unfortunately, the program, there was a lot of hesitancy about whether or not I was supposed to go to Israel. In the spring that just passed, I was in London instead. So it was extremely disappointing for me that I couldn't go. But again, that was a reason I chose it. It seemed that they had strong ties with Israel.
[00:07:52] Speaker A: Absolutely understood. So before October 7, how was life in terms of this issue, in terms of Jewish life in terms of Israel? Was it already getting on campus?
[00:08:01] Speaker C: There have always been hostilities towards Israel.
I think that's a given. On a majority of the college campuses that are in the United States and even abroad. There would be protests on Yom Hatzmut. And everything was within the realm of, like, everything was the protests and the way in which they were being conducted were within the bounds of the school's policies at that point, because none of them were so unrestrained and unhinged.
[00:08:26] Speaker A: So would you say it would be fair to say you would confront.
[00:08:29] Speaker C: I thought you were gonna say what I'm saying.
[00:08:31] Speaker A: In other words, okay, you're on a camp. You're not an sar. You're on a campus.
[00:08:34] Speaker C: I'm on a campus.
[00:08:34] Speaker A: You have lots of different views, and they might be disturbing.
[00:08:36] Speaker C: Exactly. They might be disturbing or misleading or factually incorrect and inflammatory and hostile.
But I'm on a college campus.
[00:08:48] Speaker C: Discourse is supposed to happen. Discourse is encouraged.
And they have their perspective and I have mine. And I was comfortable in feeling like I was part of the right side. It felt like I was on the. They were quiet, so I felt like I was the majority on my part.
[00:09:04] Speaker A: So you were trying to be an active Jewish student and set some things on like we do.
[00:09:09] Speaker C: Yeah. And I was involved in the Jewish community life. I was involved in the Chabad House, Bowery, and nothing was disruptive.
[00:09:15] Speaker A: How about inside the classroom? Were you taking courses that were problematic?
[00:09:18] Speaker C: Not at the time, no. I actually. I haven't had a personal experience with a professor. I was actually an English major before I switched, and some of my professors that I had ended up signing onto a document post October 7th that sort of contextualized Hamas's attack.
[00:09:36] Speaker A: Okay. But before. Before October 7, it was mostly some of these things that were happening at different times.
Yeah, it was some kind of bounds of.
[00:09:45] Speaker C: Yeah, we would have a Yomt. Yeah. Like in Washington Square park on Yeoman Smoot. We always have. It's called the Rave in the park. And kids from YU come downtown. Kids from Baruch come into the park from. From the college campus, and it connects everyone. And all of the Israelis that are in the master's programs at NYU or Columbia, everyone just comes downtown. And you celebrate Israel and you celebrate the existence and the establishment of the state of Israel, and it's a highlight of the year every single time. I tell freshmen when they come, I was told as a freshman that rave in the park in May is the best time of the year because the weather's nice. You meet so many people, they're giving out flags and swag, and there's a dj, and it's so much fun. There's just dancing at Hizuch, and you hear it from the classrooms, like from when you're in. And you just feel such camaraderie and strength and unity.
And even at those. We never really had a problem. There's always one or two dissenters that will come by, call us fascists or terrorists.
[00:10:39] Speaker A: But you felt strong. Exactly.
[00:10:40] Speaker C: We're strong. We're dancing, and they're two people. It wasn't in the numbers that we saw post October 7th.
[00:10:46] Speaker A: I got it. Okay. So that was Pretty much your experience. So now let's go to that day. So were you in school?
[00:10:51] Speaker C: So it was. I was downtown, yes.
[00:10:53] Speaker A: You were downtown.
[00:10:53] Speaker C: I was downtown. It was on a Shabbat.
[00:10:55] Speaker A: You're living in the dorm?
[00:10:56] Speaker C: I'm in an apartment, actually. I live with two of my best.
[00:10:58] Speaker A: Friends, but very much on.
[00:11:00] Speaker C: Yeah, we're in the. Yeah, we're very close. I'm like 10 minutes away from campus.
[00:11:03] Speaker A: Okay, so you're basically on campus, not in student housing.
[00:11:06] Speaker C: Exactly.
[00:11:07] Speaker A: Go ahead. And where do you. Daven.
[00:11:08] Speaker C: I'm sorry? Daven. So I was at the Chabad House, Bowery, and It was about 12 o' clock in the afternoon.
[00:11:14] Speaker A: Okay. Shabbat Srini at Sarat. Shabbat, right.
[00:11:16] Speaker C: Yeah, we were in. I was in my apartment building. And my apartment building is amazing because it's full of. It's full of other students or a lot of my friends live there. In addition to regular people that are, you know, going about their everyday life. It's a. There's a strong Jewish community in my building.
So a lot of my best friends live in my building. So they're either a floor below me or two floors below me. So I went down, we were doing lunch, and I was sitting there, and one of my friends comes running back from Chabad, and she, you know, bangs on the door. And we were all like, okay, this is, you know, calm down, we're coming. And we open the door, we're laughing at her. We're like, relax, we're getting the door. And she says, we're under attack.
So my mind instantly went to Israel. She didn't even have to clarify. I think all of us froze. I think time stood still for a second. And then all of us immediately start frantically asking her questions. How do you know? What does that mean? What's going on? Is everyone okay? Is it rockets?
Is it a bombing?
What is it? And she's like, I only. I have XYZ details. Hamas, you know, is attacking people at a. At a music festival in the south. They're going into kibbutzim. That's all I know.
[00:12:20] Speaker A: So similar to the experience that we were having here, where you're trying to get information, you're finding somebody with a phone or.
[00:12:25] Speaker C: Exactly. So whatever.
[00:12:26] Speaker A: And over the course of that day, it's becoming clearer.
[00:12:28] Speaker C: It's becoming clearer that.
[00:12:31] Speaker C: So we heard that they're making their way on the highways up to Tel Aviv, up Jerusalem. They're trying to get to central Israel. And immediately. I have family that live in Israel. I have Numerous friends in the idf. My brother was there on his gap year program, and my mind was racing.
[00:12:47] Speaker A: Was your brother remember?
[00:12:48] Speaker C: He was. At the time, he was at tva. He went to Eretz at speed. He's in the middle, but he.
[00:12:52] Speaker A: He was at tva.
[00:12:53] Speaker C: Yeah. So we found a friend with a phone. We're all calling our family members, and that's when we start to see the Instagrams and the Facebook lives and the threads and the X and all of the numerous social, gruesome social media posts that are coming out. Everyone was gutted. We had goosebumps. Silence for the rest of the day. No one knew what to talk about. There was nothing to speak about anymore.
And I was. You can imagine my surprise then when I log onto my phone, Mozehag, and I see people in Times Square walking through Central park in Manhattan, celebrating. There was a woman that held a sign. I remember seeing this picture. It says, israel creates bad karma for herself. So I was like, okay, this is bad. I had never been confronted with it. So head on. The Sheikh Jarrah War was happening when I was in Israel, and I wasn't on a college campus, my sister was. So she was well versed in how the discourse on campus goes.
So I was preparing myself for what I was about to encounter in my classrooms, among my friends, on social media.
To me, it was clear this was a terrorist attack.
[00:13:53] Speaker A: So you saw that in Central park, people are celebrating this, which is obviously extremely disturbing. Now let's get really onto campus. So Monday, right? It's October 9th.
[00:14:01] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:14:02] Speaker A: And then what does that look like?
[00:14:03] Speaker C: It's actually crazy, but on October 5th, I sat in the park with five friends and we kind of co founded NYU's chapter of students Supporting Israel.
[00:14:12] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:14:13] Speaker C: We wanted to be a student group contesting the anti Israel narrative and biases on campus. So you can imagine on October 7th or October 8th, when we all got back on our phones, we were like, okay, what do we do? What can be done? We have no idea. We have no infrastructure. We don't have a board.
We don't know how funding works, but.
[00:14:30] Speaker A: We have to do something.
[00:14:31] Speaker C: We have to do something. So we started to organize vigils and rallies immediately after.
And a lot of those had counter protestors, some violent, some not.
[00:14:41] Speaker A: So you organized pro Israel? Yeah, we had a vigil on campus.
[00:14:45] Speaker C: Yeah. And what was beautiful was that the vigil, we put the word out, I think the day before, or may, maybe the day of. And we had to get a park permit. And we had alumni working around the clock to help make sure that we had what we needed in order to unite our community. And we thought we were going to get 50 people. I assumed it was going to be the usual chabad crowd, maybe a few stragglers. We had about 200 people in the park with us that day, that night, actually. And a lot of my non Jewish friends came, which was so nice. So we spoke. We heard from people who lost friends or whose friends were missing at this point, who weren't found, and that was a great place of unity. But the next day, things just erupted. There were numerous protests.
[00:15:26] Speaker A: So these are students.
[00:15:27] Speaker C: The majority of them were students.
[00:15:29] Speaker A: This was on campus. And was it about suffering in Gaza?
[00:15:32] Speaker C: What's crazy to me is that there's no way that you can spin the protests. I don't even like calling them protests.
[00:15:39] Speaker C: There was nothing to protest. Israel hadn't even moved troops to the southern border at this point. So this, I view them as celebrations.
[00:15:46] Speaker A: Okay?
[00:15:47] Speaker C: They were saying, like, globalize the Intifada. Resistance is justified when people are occupied. And at this point, we're hearing about babies in ovens. We're hearing about people that were butchered. Innocent people.
[00:15:59] Speaker A: And celebrations.
[00:16:00] Speaker C: And celebrations.
And you have the voice notes of the Hamas terrorists calling their parents. There's one that rings in my mind every single time I hear resistance is justified. And it's when he says, I killed, you know, 10 Jews with my hands.
[00:16:12] Speaker A: Right?
[00:16:13] Speaker C: And I played that for friends. And I was saying, this is not resistance, this is terrorism.
[00:16:18] Speaker A: You know, I can imagine you're on the older side of campus and you've been there for a little bit, and.
[00:16:23] Speaker C: I think taking a gap year helped.
[00:16:24] Speaker A: One of the things you're trying to do is obviously policies in terms of the school. There's, like, talking to kids maybe.
[00:16:29] Speaker C: Yeah. There was a lot to navigate. It was a lot. It was very overwhelming, for sure, because we were balancing classes while also making sure that the Jewish students on campus were safe and heard and that the defense for the state of Israel was strong and consistent and prepared at every second. We were preparing talking points for students who were maybe in a classroom with a professor who was espousing anti Israel rhetoric. We were preparing emails and drafts to send to congressional members, to administration, you know, outlining the codes of conduct and the bylaws of the school to make sure that, you know, protests that were anti Israel were adhering to them.
[00:17:08] Speaker A: Were you able to have any reasonable conversations?
[00:17:09] Speaker C: No.
[00:17:10] Speaker A: Were you able to, like, oh, let's just talk, let's get into Immediately after.
[00:17:13] Speaker C: No, no, not at all. I tried numerous times. Of course, I always say that there's a reason that a lot of the students on these college campuses that are advocating so strongly for the Jewish community and for Israel are from sar. We were taught the art of critical thinking. We were taught the art of holding two complex ideas at once with a grand conversation. We're able to engage in dialogue respectfully and are able to actually listen and express empathy and sympathy while also being strong in our opinions and our beliefs.
[00:17:43] Speaker A: The other side of the other side.
[00:17:44] Speaker C: Yeah, it was. Exactly. Unfortunately, I actually had numerous experiences with girls in my sorority, and they were all posting extremely hostile. Also, just wrong information.
[00:17:54] Speaker A: These people are these kids that you were close with?
[00:17:56] Speaker C: Yes. From October 7, I received some messages following Israel's mobilization. Messages and sympathies dried up even as.
[00:18:04] Speaker A: I expressed five days of at least some people not celebrating.
[00:18:09] Speaker C: At least some people in my own circles. Exactly. But as soon as Israel starts to defend itself, it's immediately cut off.
Yes. People unfollowed me on Instagram. I was called numerous times by girls my sorority. One girl would consistently contact me not to express sympathies, but it was to contradict every single thing I put out or to attack me for every single post I would make publicly.
[00:18:29] Speaker A: Privately.
[00:18:30] Speaker C: Both. She actually posted my information online, and she posted a screenshot of my post, and I was floored. I stand by what I wrote, so it doesn't bother me in that way, but the fact that you're resorting to such a childish way of engaging in discourse. She called me a Nazi, which generated particular disgust for me because my grandparents survived the Shoah. And I told her as much, called me a terrorist supporter. And she told me that my identity is too tied to this controversial issue.
And I told her, my identity is this controversial issue.
I'm Jewish.
[00:19:03] Speaker A: You're in a pretty hostile environment right now. Are you scared? Personally, Physically?
[00:19:07] Speaker C: Yeah, I was scared.
[00:19:09] Speaker A: Do you feel threatened?
[00:19:09] Speaker C: I felt extremely threatened. I felt extremely threatened, for sure.
[00:19:12] Speaker A: And you spoke about that, too. You tried to speak.
[00:19:15] Speaker C: I spoke about that with administration. I spoke about it with various rabbis on campus, with my parents also. My dad was definitely a little bit nervous. So was my mom, and my sister was at Columbia. So it was like on both ends of the city, our parents were constantly checking in on us. And what was crazy is that also my friends in Israel were checking in on more than I would say.
They were like, are you okay? We're seeing what's happening on the news. I'm Like I'm seeing what's happening on the news for you. Are you okay? Running in and out of bomb shelters, being called to both borders. I was worried for them, they were worried for me. But I tried to speak to as many people as I could about what was going on. And I ended up having the privilege to speak on the news about my experiences on campus, which was, I think that was a turning point, I would say, in the response that we were receiving.
[00:20:01] Speaker A: Because you were getting.
[00:20:02] Speaker C: We had a seat at the table, people were finally listening to us. We weren't being overly dramatic.
[00:20:06] Speaker A: And did you feel like, when did you feel like you had a focus of what you were trying to even accomplish?
[00:20:12] Speaker C: The moods fluctuated between anger, frustration, sadness, disappointment. Disappointment was a consistent feeling that everyone on all the Jewish students on all college campuses felt. There was just immense feeling of letdown. There was a feeling of, how can you not see this? By my peers, by my administration, by my professors, by our congressional representatives who ended up being champions for the cause later on.
[00:20:36] Speaker A: But just there's all those feelings which make a lot of sense and you're just probably running on a lot of.
[00:20:41] Speaker C: Yeah. So I think I felt like I had narrowed in my goals. I think after that first time I spoke on Fox News. Okay, those goals were to have the rules and codes of conduct that were held up for every other minority group on campus. I wanted them to be applied to the Jewish students as well. And I wanted to be protected underneath my university's codes of conduct and rules and policies.
[00:21:04] Speaker A: So that's, that's a goal or a very simple.
[00:21:07] Speaker C: Yeah, that was the goal.
And I wanted to defend Israel. In my naivete, I never realized how deep seated this hatred and misinformation was running. And I wanted to be part of that change. I didn't realize that anti Semitism was still a problem growing up in that bubble.
I went to Sihar High School. We had those challenging conversations, but I was never confronted with people who believed that the Jewish homeland shouldn't exist and the Jews don't have a right to self determination. I was confronted by people calling me a Nazi or white settler colonialist. It's a shape shifting monster. Anti Semitism. And I'd never been confronted with it. And I was taken aback at first, but once I got my footing, it was like I was full secret.
[00:21:46] Speaker A: Okay, so now we just named three goals. Let's go through it. How'd you do?
[00:21:49] Speaker C: I think I did well.
I'd say one of them was completed policies I worked this summer at aipac, I had the privilege of working in their New York office. So I had a front row seat to some important work. Yeah, some important work. I had a front row seat to watching how pro Israel policies and politics are implemented or advocated for, which was amazing to watch and to see part.
[00:22:13] Speaker A: Of these congressional races that were very.
[00:22:15] Speaker C: Yeah. And I got to see the loudest in the room, which was exemplified in the Bowman race with Latimer is not always the most supported voice, which I'm going to take with me back to my campus in the fall. And I sued my university in November for their failure to adhere to Title 6 of the Civil Rights act and to adequately apply their codes of conduct.
[00:22:33] Speaker A: You alone or did you have a group?
[00:22:34] Speaker C: I had four other students suing with me and we just settled it in middle of July.
[00:22:40] Speaker A: The decision to sue, obviously to go out really publicly, my meant to go out through that process. Obviously the fact that it settled mean you didn't end up in a courtroom. But thank God it obviously got a lot of press and I imagine really tangibly affected the way the university deals with this. Thinks about this.
[00:22:59] Speaker C: I would say I'm cautiously optimistic. They just sent out a revised form with the codes of conduct and their policies and what's different.
[00:23:05] Speaker A: So give me an example. Yeah, what's different?
[00:23:07] Speaker C: Calling for the genocide of Jews is anti Semitic.
[00:23:09] Speaker A: It's on the paper.
[00:23:09] Speaker C: It is.
[00:23:10] Speaker A: That didn't exist.
[00:23:12] Speaker C: It wasn't explicitly stated. So I'm very happy that it is now, at least it's in writing. And what I'm hoping is the rules of where to protest, how to protest, were even more outlined and emphasized. I'm hoping that they're properly enforced and swiftly enforced and that I don't have to be in the library again and feel as though I have a target on my back. I just don't want to feel that way. Who does? If they're a student at a university that they're attending, that they want to learn and they want to engage and they want to walk around campus feeling like any other college student in New Yorker walking around the city, I hope that the school actually takes what they promised and actually enforces it.
[00:23:45] Speaker A: I hope that you're going in feeling pretty strong. I hope you were feeling strong last year too. You went through a process that you actually accomplished something in a very clear.
[00:23:54] Speaker C: Yeah, that was, I think, one of the most tangible changes that were implemented. I felt very proud.
[00:23:59] Speaker A: Aside from the settlement, has the administration reached out to you?
[00:24:02] Speaker C: No, no, no.
[00:24:03] Speaker A: Aside from the channel waiting for that.
[00:24:05] Speaker C: I'm not really expecting it. I'd love to be in dis discourse with them. I think that the media attention they were getting was making it extremely difficult. I'm not excusing their behavior. I sued them. Obviously, I'm not excusing their behavior.
[00:24:16] Speaker A: But you understand that there are a lot of constituents.
[00:24:19] Speaker C: Exactly. But what bothered me was that there was a clear double standard when it came to the defense of Jewish students and the protection of Jewish students and the advocacy on behalf of Jewish students. If it was any other minority group on any other college campus around the world that was facing calls for global extermination and global violence, I think that the condemnation would be swift and unequivocal. And it wasn't.
[00:24:40] Speaker A: And I guess you go in there cautiously optimistic.
[00:24:43] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:24:43] Speaker A: You're not going to go into a radically changed campus.
[00:24:45] Speaker C: No, I'm not exactly. There's going to be students that are obviously unhappy. I know that there are students that are unhappy with the lawsuit settlement. There are still groups on the university campus that supported what hamas did on October 7. There are still those groups. They're still on campus. We'll see if they stay. We'll see how they approach this year. I'm. I wouldn't say cautiously optimistic about them. I'm cautious when it comes to them. Fair, not optimistic.
[00:25:12] Speaker A: Well, let's put it this way. You're going back.
[00:25:13] Speaker C: I'm going back. I can't wait to fighter.
[00:25:15] Speaker A: You're going.
[00:25:16] Speaker C: I'm going back as a fighter. I'm not going to take anything really sitting down, take anything lightly. I don't anticipate that a lot of the students will at this point from the Jewish community. I think that we have momentum and we noticed that there's a change. We saw what can be done. And I think that should be. If it's not. If it hasn't already inspired people, I hope that it does inspire them to stand up. Because even as I was engaging in various media appearances in the lawsuit and speaking in front of Congress, I remember watching the other students on college campuses and feeling inspired by them. And I felt, what else can I do? So I hope that what I did inspires not just the students that are already at college campuses, but also the ones that are coming in that may be really nervous.
[00:25:56] Speaker A: I was going to ask you about that. The first goal is going to be the most tangible. Let's talk about the other two together. Right?
[00:26:02] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:26:03] Speaker A: Anti Semitism generally and telling Israel's story. That's not one that you're Going to be able to tick off because you're going to continue doing it.
[00:26:09] Speaker C: Exactly.
[00:26:09] Speaker A: But how do you feel about that? You found your voice. You were asked to testify before Congress. How did that.
[00:26:14] Speaker C: So I spoke at the press conference ahead of the now infamous Congressional hearing. And that was.
[00:26:21] Speaker C: It's actually silly because I didn't really understand what I was doing. I was like, okay, I'm going to go. Thank you. I thought it was going to be a few congressional members in the room with me before they went in to see the President to testify. And I brought my brother Izzy with me because he was home from Israel. I made it into a fun road trip. I'm like, you could come see. I also wanted him to see that there are people fighting for us because he's going to college in the fall.
[00:26:44] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:26:44] Speaker C: I brought him with me. And I walk into the room and speaker of the House Mike Johnson is there, and he shakes my hand. And I was like, what are you doing here?
[00:26:52] Speaker A: What are you doing?
[00:26:53] Speaker C: Exactly. I was like, what is happening? That was. I was like, okay, what's going on? And I walked into the room and there were like, so many reporters. And I was like, oh, okay.
[00:27:01] Speaker A: This is bigger than I thought.
[00:27:02] Speaker C: Yeah, it's good.
[00:27:03] Speaker A: I wrote something.
[00:27:03] Speaker C: I thought it was good. Exactly. I thought I was going to be maybe on C Span. I didn't realize the mass coverage I was actually going to get. And Izzy says to me before. He says the biggest. The words of encouragement before the biggest speaking engagement of my life.
[00:27:12] Speaker A: You got this.
[00:27:13] Speaker C: He goes, just don't mess up.
[00:27:16] Speaker A: Thank you, Izzy.
[00:27:17] Speaker C: I was like, okay, I'm gonna try my best.
And I think that again, like I said before with the Fox News, that gave me a seat at the table, I think that this opened doors.
Not just a seat at the table, this opened doors. In terms of the advocacy, you learned a lot.
[00:27:29] Speaker A: APEC obviously, was connected. I imagine you learned a lot about the process, and you did. I watched your speech and it was excellent.
[00:27:36] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:27:38] Speaker A: And at this age, to see how systems work or don't work.
[00:27:43] Speaker C: No, it was great to see. I was able to see who are champions for the cause, who were asking questions of the presidents, who was actually taking them to task. When I heard, I was in the room when President McGill of Penn said that calling for the genocide of Jews was a context dependent decision. And my jaw was on the floor and I watched my brother. Everyone was silent. The room was. You could hear a pin drop because it was the most.
It was just an insane thing to say. To own it as well.
And I was sitting there and I was like, wow, okay, I need to do more, because that's unacceptable. And Bowman was there as well. He came in late, left early. He also used his five minutes of speaking time to speak about everything but campus anti Semitism.
That was extremely disappointing for me. And Izzy and I were in his line of vision as well. He had two constituents there, one of whom had just spoken about her experiences with campus antisemitism. And he had such an opportunity to take these presidents to task for his other constituents. On these other constituents.
[00:28:39] Speaker A: I assume you were from when you spoke, right?
[00:28:41] Speaker C: Yes, I think it was also in my bio. I think. I don't know if I said it explicitly, but he knew who we were. And he chose not to take these presidents to task and use those minutes to get his own agenda across. And I was disappointed was the theme. And it was an extreme feeling of disappointment.
[00:28:58] Speaker A: He's pretty disappointed now. I assume so.
[00:29:00] Speaker C: Too bad.
[00:29:02] Speaker A: Yeah. I assume to date, that was probably the biggest forum.
Where else have you been?
[00:29:08] Speaker C: Tigris? And how old are you? I'm 22 now. I was 21 at the time. I did a segment for MSNBC, which was great. I spoke with the Free Press, who have been doing amazing work. I follow them very closely. I did a segment for ABC when we did the rally in Washington.
That was exciting as well. And I did News Nation. And what I noticed was that a lot of the interviews I did, they were extremely open to hearing and extremely sympathetic, which made me feel great, obviously, because you don't want to have a hostile reporter, especially when you're 21 and you're putting yourself in a vulnerable.
[00:29:40] Speaker A: We'll do that next time, right?
[00:29:41] Speaker C: Exactly. Maybe next time around, we'll see. But no, it was that also. It felt, again, like I was being heard by some people. And that was empowering and reinforcing in order to. For me to go forward and continue the work that I was doing. And I know from my peers on other college campuses that were doing the same thing as me, when they finished these interviews and the interviews went well, they felt okay. That went great. I hope people listen the same way that this reporter did.
[00:30:06] Speaker A: Where do you think this goes for you?
[00:30:07] Speaker C: I think that I am going to law school. Not immediately after graduation, but is that.
[00:30:12] Speaker A: Different from what you thought a year ago?
[00:30:14] Speaker C: I think that a year ago, I didn't know what I wanted to do.
[00:30:16] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:30:17] Speaker C: Specifically, I knew I wanted to do something that would be helping people. I'm a people person. I love to engage with people. I love to hear from people. I love to speak with people. And so I knew I wanted to do something that combined my interests.
[00:30:29] Speaker A: All of that.
[00:30:29] Speaker C: Yeah. And it was very difficult for me because you hear buzzwords like consulting and banking and doctor. And I finally, I found with the lawsuit that was brought, it brought so many amazing things, but it also gave me a sense of direction. I would love to do civil rights litigation and I would love to do what my lawyers did for me this past year.
[00:30:46] Speaker A: Beautiful.
[00:30:47] Speaker C: You know, the big dream. I'll give you my, like, lofty aspiration. I'm sure you know who Tal Becker is.
[00:30:52] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:30:52] Speaker C: What he does.
[00:30:53] Speaker A: Great stuff.
[00:30:54] Speaker C: I would love to do that. I would love to defend Israel. Have you met International? I've not.
[00:30:57] Speaker A: You should.
[00:30:58] Speaker C: I'm trying.
[00:30:58] Speaker A: Yeah, you will.
[00:30:59] Speaker C: Trying to get a. Trying to get a meeting with him. But I would love to defend Israel on the national stage in the International Court of Justice. I think that's like the main. That would be like the highest of highs.
[00:31:08] Speaker B: That's.
[00:31:09] Speaker A: That's a real answer.
[00:31:09] Speaker C: But we'll see.
[00:31:10] Speaker A: Life goes.
[00:31:11] Speaker C: Life goes in different ways. If I can do anything. Yeah.
[00:31:14] Speaker A: Now let's talk to the kids who are not in this room but will be here soon. Bella, Should I go to nyu? Should I go to Columbia? Should I go to, I don't know, Penn?
[00:31:22] Speaker C: Harvard, MIT, Rutgers.
[00:31:24] Speaker A: Right.
[00:31:25] Speaker C: Barnard. Yes.
[00:31:26] Speaker A: Yes. 100% hostile campuses.
[00:31:28] Speaker C: 110%. We should not be self segregating at all.
I think that if we remove ourselves from these spaces, we lose.
We lose more than we would lose by being in them and facing what we're facing.
We need to. We need to be there.
[00:31:43] Speaker A: Is it safe?
[00:31:46] Speaker C: It depends. It depends on your campus. It depends on the students on that campus.
[00:31:50] Speaker A: When I say, say I want to be physically or you're saying in a general sense, oh, yeah, is it a healthy place to be?
[00:31:56] Speaker C: It's definitely not emotionally healthy. It was an awful year, but I recommend it. But I would say should go because they want to make it safer. Yeah, we'll make it safer by being there. It doesn't help anyone. It doesn't help them as well for us not being there because they're existing within an echo chamber. They benefit from me being on campus and challenging their thought processes.
They benefit from Jewish students wearing a kippah on campus to show them that we're not afraid and that they're not winning and that we're not backing down. I felt so much pride when I would see my guy Friends walking around campus with their tzitzit, proudly with their dog tag saying, bring them home with a kippah on their head, walking to class.
[00:32:31] Speaker A: So it's an interesting answer to the question because it feels like you're saying yes.
[00:32:36] Speaker C: I am saying yes.
[00:32:37] Speaker A: We should be going, yes. But not because I believe in these institutions necessarily.
[00:32:44] Speaker C: I also think that we work hard.
[00:32:45] Speaker A: Because I believe in the people that I'm talking to.
[00:32:47] Speaker C: I believe in the people. I believe in the students that I'm with. And I also think that we've been working hard. I should be afforded the same right as every other student wanting to go to a college campus of going to the college campus that I dream of.
[00:32:57] Speaker A: So no regrets.
[00:32:58] Speaker C: No regrets. I think that if a student at SIR wants to go to NYU or dreams of going to Columbia for a specific program, you should go to Columbia for that program and you should enjoy it and you should learn and you should challenge yourself and you should challenge those around you. I think that if we self segregate, we lose the battle. I think that's absolutely.
[00:33:15] Speaker A: And those people saying we should be looking at universities in Israel or.
[00:33:18] Speaker C: I support that too.
[00:33:19] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:33:20] Speaker C: I thought about it in the middle of my semester last year.
[00:33:22] Speaker A: I'm sure you did.
[00:33:23] Speaker C: My dad wanted me to transfer to idc.
He would send me links. He'd be like, you can apply. I know that a lot of students are wanting to go to IU now.
[00:33:30] Speaker A: And that's amazing, which might be great for them, right?
[00:33:32] Speaker C: Exactly.
[00:33:32] Speaker A: But you're saying if you shouldn't be going to YU because you don't want.
[00:33:36] Speaker C: To go to NYU for the reasons of hostility on campus. I think that we should be going. There are going to be conversations about dei. We should be in them. We should be be supported and protected the same way that other minority students and groups on campus are. And if we remove ourselves, then the school doesn't have to enforce those protections, so we should be there.
[00:33:54] Speaker A: Crazy thought. And I think we'll wrap up with this.
[00:33:59] Speaker A: Where was your bat Mitzvah? My Bat Mitzvah was in Westchester, like on the hundredth floor of some.
[00:34:03] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, it was.
[00:34:04] Speaker A: Okay, so that was 10 years ago. Do the math.
[00:34:07] Speaker C: That was a very long time ago. I think 12. Oh, my God. No, 10 years ago.
Oh, my God.
[00:34:11] Speaker A: 10 years ago.
[00:34:12] Speaker C: Oh my God. Yeah.
[00:34:13] Speaker A: That's crazy, right? So 10 years. I just remembered this now as we're talking. 10 years ago, I go to Bella Ingrid. So a lot happens in 10 years. So let's talk to the Bat Mitzvah girls. Right. I got seventh and eighth or boys.
[00:34:23] Speaker B: Right.
[00:34:24] Speaker A: Bar bat mitzvah age.
The next 10 years of your life are going to be massive.
[00:34:29] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:34:29] Speaker A: What would you want to tell your 12 year old Bella about the next 3, 4, 8, 10 ears?
[00:34:37] Speaker C: Read.
[00:34:40] Speaker C: Open your mind. Engage in conversations with people who you might disagree with. Doesn't have to be on the scale in which college students are doing it with regards to Israel. But if you disagree with a friend, practice listening and hearing them out and seeing where they come from so that you can find some foundational common ground that you can build off of and expand on. I think that's something really valuable. I would say have fun, live, try new things. If you come to SAR High school and you want to join the chess team and you also want to join the Israel club, go for it. If you want to write for the buzz and you also want to join Model un, do both. I did it. It was awesome. Push yourself outside of your comfort zone. SIR is such a safe place. And I say that not in a way that people are like, oh, safe. No, it's if they want you to express yourself, you're supposed to find yourself in these four years. And thank God I did. I attribute a lot of my advocacy and my confidence speaking on these issues and engaging on campus to my education at sir. I really do.
Again, I said it before. It's not a coincidence that a lot of the students on these college campuses are SIR Alum. It's not a coincidence.
[00:35:48] Speaker A: Well, I can say professionally, we're very proud of who you are and what you've done over over the last 12 months. And we are sure that you will continue to do things that will make you proud and your family proud and your people proud. And it's great to have this conversation with you.
[00:36:03] Speaker C: Thank you for having me.
[00:36:04] Speaker A: Be strong.
[00:36:05] Speaker B: Be strong.
[00:36:05] Speaker C: Thank you.
[00:36:05] Speaker A: Because it's not easy. Thank you very much.
[00:36:07] Speaker C: Of course, it was a pleasure.
